International Association for the Study of Dreams

[auntlello1]

Hi all! I am new to this site, and have tried searching for any posts on this subject, but not coming up with anything.

What I am wondering is, does anyone else here have many non-rem dreams? As far as lucid dreams, at this point I do not want to know I am dreaming. Instead, I would like to actually take a break from dreaming! The last time I woke up from ANY sleep (5 min nap to all night) and I was NOT dreaming was back in the summer of 2003. Otherwise, I will always wake up from a dream, no matter how long the sleep was. I have had three different sleep studies, and of course they do not believe me when I tell them I was dreaming because it did not show the right "crap" they wanted to see. I have had this problem since at least highschool, because I remember falling asleep at my desk and dreaming. I can fall asleep on the couch, and even dream about whatever is on the tv. (of course it is not the same, but whatever I hear is what I hear in the dream, but the picture is different) I can bounce from dream to dream through the night, and wake up to write an entire movie if I wanted to, with all the different scenes. I just want to take a break for a while! Any help, or suggestions of people that have studied this, would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[timeisnotlinear]

Hi auntlello1, Welcome to the IASD Discussion Boards.

Personally (with no scientific evidence to back be up) I believe that the dreams we remember are not from the R.E.M. stage of sleep, but the stage leading into and out of it. Science currently doesn't see it that way as far as I know, but in my experience that is what I have noticed.

For example, I have been having a dream slump for several months. However, in the past few days I have been having lots and lots of vivid dreams and excellent dream recall, but that has also coincided with a restless night of sleep where I am constantly tossing and turning and wake up very very tired. This is usually the case when I remember my dreams.

Now that seems to be one portion of your post, the other seems to be about not wanting to dream as much so that you can have a restful sleeping period. Unfortunately, I have no suggestion for you on that front. I'm not sure what action one would take to stifle their dreaming world.

[rcwilk]

auntlello1,

I don't have the references here with me, so take this info lightly, as a summary from my memory.

There is some debate these days about how much we dream - we used to say REM period dreams only and anything outside REM were just fragments. But researchers (see Tore Neilsen) has said that he has found dreaming in every stage of sleep.
True, the REM dreams are still considered richer, longer, more storylike - the but REM -- NREM barrier theory is getting weaker and weaker. On the other side of the debate you might look up research by James Pagel, who claims he has patients that have lost their abiltity to dream.

It is still considered more typical to recall dreams in REM sleep and not in NREM sleep.

So, increased dreaming recall may have many many meanings, physiologically. I don't recall too many people saying they recall dreams even from every nap, but that may also be our culture's way of defining a dream. (ie some feel they need to reach a particular length and richness, while other consider a thought that gets elaborated a bit a dream). Typically people complain about too many dreams at night, or too intense of dreams.
Hyperdreaming may simple mean the person is very tuned into that skill, dream recall that is. Or the person may need more sleep than they realize, ie be getting REM Rebound. A wide range of medications can also be influencial in hyperdreaming, as well as many herbs.

But for someone where this has been consistant over years, I'm at quite a loss.


RC
_________________
Richard Wilkerson | asdreams.org | office@asdreams.org

[auntlello1]

Thank you both for your input. Yes, I "dream" of the day where I can actually wake up feeling refreshed. I do not have any sleeping disorders that they can find, but have always been a "light" sleeper.

I have been on many different medications through the years, and they seem to only makes things worse. With both anti-depressants, and a couple of different medications they tried for migraines, it actually becomes scary as I have attacked my husband a couple of times and wake up running from things that are not there. So, no medication for me!

It is just so frustrating that many doctors will just look at me with a blank stair, and most of the time do not believe me. When I "dream" during a quick nap, although it has only been a few minutes, dreams must be faster than in real life because so much can happen in that short time.

I just wondered how many other people out there are like me, as I did come across a posting about it once on a Yoga site, but until finding this site did not come across anything else. I will definatly look up the two people suggested, as it becomes a little tiring year after year of almost having a double life. The real one, and the dreaming one. (I seem to be more active, in better health with no pains, and not afraid of much in my dreams. . . almost wish I could be that person sometimes!)

So thanks for the input!

[timeisnotlinear]

Best of luck in figuring it out and getting the results you desire.

[Rawn]

My personal experience is that dreams do not only occur during REM sleep.
My dream occur immediately as I fall asleep. I just drift from waking thoughts right into dream imagery.
My current working premise is that the dream level of consciousness is at work even while we are awake, and we are just too distracted by the physical awareness of out senses to pay any attention to it.
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All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.

H P Lovecraft

[timeisnotlinear]

I agree.

[Spiral Jetty]

I find this subject of "too much dreaming" to be fascinating. It reminds of how individual our relationship to the dream state is. Some are wishing for more dream recall, or any dream recall while others are overwhelmed by dreams such as nightmares, or in this case, in over-supply.

A thought that occurred to me as I read your account, auntello1, relates to making lemonade our of lemons, or however that saying goes. You might consider joining a dream group or at least studying dreams by reading books on the subject, if you have not done so already. Your dreams certainly seem to want your attention. You have a gift, which, I can understand feels more like a curse right now. But, perhaps through delving into your dreams you will be able to alter your relationship with them.

I wish you the best in coming to a place of balance in your waking/dream life. Dreams can be a great counterpart to our waking existence. Good luck.

[Catbar]

[Marcia]

How would you know if a dream is happening during REM or non-REM sleep unless the dream happened while you were being monitored in a lab? There are certain types of dreams that tend to be more associated with REM than with non-REM dreams: REM dreams tend to be more vivid, have more action in them and are more likely to focus on the dreamer - but there are exceptions; it isn't 100% clear cut.

Yes, you remember the dreams you were having when you wake up, but you can wake up during REM as well as during NREM sleep. For example, you can wake because of an alarm, the sun coming through your window, etc., regardless of what sleep stage you are in. During sleep paralysis, when you wake up, you are still partly in REM sleep.

It is certainly possible that you were having vivid "REM-type" dreams in non-REM sleep. Perhaps the people who ran the sleep studies saw that you were in non-REM sleep and said that therefore, you couldn't be dreaming, but they should know better.

What you are experiencing is normal. Some people remember more dreams than others. It isn't that you are dreaming more, it is that you are remembering your dreams more than other people.

I don't understand why you want to take a break from dreaming, though. Do your dreams bother you? Are you waking up feeling tired, like you didn't get enough sleep, even though you did. If you are falling asleep at your desk or on the couch, maybe you are just generally sleep deprived?
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http://www.meaningofdreams.org

[Catbar]

To my mind there can never be too much dreaming! I could happily spend all day and night dreaming, but that's me.

I wonder though if vivid dreaming can actually tire one out, so that one wakes up tired. All that activity, going places, doing things...... I wake up tired nearly all the time but I wouldn't be without my dreams.
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Catbar UK

"My Dreams have Dreamotions as I am Dreamotional"

[Marcia]

I think the vivid dreaming could be associated with something else that causes tiredness. Fore example, your vivid dreams could be a way of relieving psychological stress that is already wearing you out, or they can be associated with narcolepsy or sleep apnea.

Your bodily functions (heart rate, respiration) are more speeded up in REM than in NREM sleep, so I suppose it is possible that if you have an excessive amount of REM vs NREM sleep, it could make you more tired.
_________________
http://www.meaningofdreams.org

[Catbar]

Yes, I've heard of that: that - perversely - too much sleep (REM sleep?) can make one feel tired. Silly, isn't it. And again when I'm clearly exhausted, but lie half the night tossing and turning, isn't that being 'too tired to sleep'?

And again, yes, I might be having such a great meaningfully-active time in my dreams that it increases bodily functions and thus makes me tired next morning.

Still, I'd rather have an abundance of dreams/REM sleep than to go short on sleep, if, whatever, I'm going to end up tired either way. Dreams can be what gets me through the, yes, often psychologically-stressful day (I'm what's probably known as a 'HSP' and am also Misophonic/Sound-Sensitive).
_________________
Catbar UK

"My Dreams have Dreamotions as I am Dreamotional"

[Marcia]

PTSD dreams, where you relive the trauma over and over in your dreams, are associated with NREM sleep.
_________________
http://www.meaningofdreams.org